This interview is with Fabio Devin, CEO at Dorve.

Fabio Devin, CEO, Dorve

Welcome, Fabio!  Can you tell us a bit about your background and how you became an expert in SEO, UX, UI, and Branding?

I have a degree in marketing and a minor in design. I started working in banking marketing around 1994, with companies like Citibank, VISA, and Deutsche Bank. However, I shifted to web design and development in 1998 as a freelancer. Later, I began offering different types of services based on my expertise and studies, which I completed by obtaining an MSc in Human-Computer Interaction (HCI). In 2008, I founded Dorve, a data-driven company that offers a variety of services, focusing on marketing and UX. Since these areas overlap with others like SEO, branding, UI, and development, they all came naturally. As a CEO, I had to become an expert in all of them, and I enjoy working on projects in all of these areas.

What were some of the pivotal moments in your career that led you to specialize in these areas?

Simply put, the birth of the internet. I have worked with the internet since 1994. However, in 1998, I told myself, “I want to be part of this revolution,” and completely quit my previous career in banking marketing.

A second pivotal moment was when someone told me, “You’re an excellent designer. You’re used to data-driven solutions from your marketing background, and you use research for everything… that’s called UX.” At that time, around 2000 or 2001, I didn’t know that discipline existed. Since then, I have devoted my life to UX and research.

You’ve spoken before about the importance of organic traffic in SEO. Can you share an instance where focusing on a less competitive, niche audience led to unexpected success for a campaign?

Sure. A perfect example was the SEO campaign we ran for a group interested in investing in autism clinics that specialize in ABA therapy. ABA is somewhat resisted by some autistic people and their families, so we identified this as a potential pain point. We realized we needed a contingency plan because the owner of the most famous blog about autism, who is highly influential, had harshly criticized this approach to autism.

Since our company has two psychology PhDs, they provided us with hundreds of tangential terms and long-tail keywords, which we expanded to thousands using synonyms. We then filtered them using our own machine-learning engine (this was long before generative AI) to create an organized and more manageable silo of keywords, sub-keywords, sub-sub-keywords, and so on. We also found a gap in content related to virtual therapies, so we focused on that area along with low-hanging fruits and long-tail keywords, without heavily targeting ABA. As a result, while we ranked on the first page, we were only in 10th place for ABA-related terms. However, everything related to virtual psychology and teletherapy ranked #1 within a week, simply because there was a gap due to a lack of interest.

Despite the initial ranking, the company began receiving five or six signups a week for a $2,000 service. Then, when the COVID-19 lockdown happened, we were already positioned first for everything, so signups surged to 100, 200, 300 a month. This success enabled them to buy more clinics across Maryland and surrounding states. The investing company’s ROI was unprecedented, and after the pandemic ended, they sold the chain of clinics. Many of them still rank in the top three for any ABA and autism-related keyword.

On a side note, the investing company is now our main client.

You mentioned that your company uses AI to enhance UX. Can you elaborate on how AI has significantly improved the user experience in one of your recent projects? What specific challenges did it help you overcome?

We had been using AI long before Generative AI existed. We started working with Machine Learning and Neural Networks around 2006, back when my wife and partner was writing her Ph.D. thesis on Natural Language for Machine Learning. We realized we could use this approach to analyze data and sentiments, so we began developing AI for data analysis (essentially what is now known as Big Data). Based on the findings and possibilities we discovered daily, I developed a UX framework called Quantum UX, a name I chose as a metaphor comparing the limitless possibilities and multiple states of user experience to the field of Quantum Physics.

We use these models to identify trends and provide on-the-fly answers for many clients, particularly in SEO, where data is abundant and easily accessible. A few third-party tools like BigQuery, Analytics, SEMrush, Ahrefs, or GSC can instantly provide information on issues other agencies might take days or even weeks to discover. A perfect example occurred yesterday (at the time of writing this) with a financial company that had been losing traffic consistently since April 2023. They hired three different companies, but none could identify the issue. They found and contacted us, and I promised the client we would find the problem in less than 48 hours. It actually took me just 8 hours (and of course, now we are discussing how to continue working with them as clients).

Another significant case, which even surprised me, was with a large government agency website from Norway. They have top-tier teams, yet their traffic dropped from 27,000 unique visitors to zero overnight. This happened in December 2023, and they contacted us in August. It was a very interesting case, and I honestly thought it would be unsolvable. Data analysis, both manual and AI-driven, was flawless. There were no changes, and the content was obviously of the highest quality and interest for the Norwegian audience. Almost impossible to explain. In this case, we used a more inductive approach: Occam’s Razor. If data couldn’t explain it, I had to explore everything that wasn’t quantifiable. And there it was: a single line of Svelte code with an empty string, which normally wouldn’t cause any issues, but they had an unlucky combination of factors. While this may not sound like an AI use case, I mention it because we actually used AI to discard all reasons related to measurable data. Comparing eight months with their website down to the three days it took us to recover it, you can see how AI played a crucial role in this situation.

Considering your experience with the Chinese bank’s user dashboard, what are your top three recommendations for designers navigating cultural differences in UI elements?

My first three recommendations are:

1. Get information on the cultural aspects you’ll need for your work.

If possible, try to find a professional to help you, as this will save you a lot of time. A professional from that specific culture would be ideal, but you can also use the services of local anthropologists.

2. Be open to criticism.

Remember that to some people, you are a newcomer, and you’ll likely encounter resistance. No matter how good you are, there will be someone ready to challenge every choice you’ve made.

3. Do not argue. Listen.

No matter how well-prepared you think you are, never assume your perception is fully accurate. Every culture has nuances, and there are aspects you may not be aware of. Additionally, many non-Western cultures have adapted to ‘bridge the gap,’ but not entirely, so you may encounter cultural blends. This is also true for Western cultures: Latin American countries naturally use many English words, while Spain rejects them and uses words most Spanish speakers can’t even understand.

How do you see the role of branding evolving alongside advancements in AI and automation, particularly in creating personalized user experiences?

I see branding as one of the most exciting fields for AI application. There have already been many experiments and even full campaigns, so this isn’t new. However, I predict that personalization will be key.

I wrote a complete article on the subject a few years ago. One of the examples I gave was the use of DOOH (Digital Out of Home) ads that could be entirely personalized depending on the person viewing them. Suppose there’s a bus stop and a user whose data indicates a preference for Brand A. If we represent Brand A, we could create a need or urge; if we represent Brand B, we could establish the brand in the user’s mind and even counter every possible advantage of Brand A with the benefits of Brand B.

In that same article, I mentioned the combination of DOOH and smartphones with smart homes. Let’s assume I’m out of groceries. A simple app could identify those needs and automatically create a list of groceries that the user can review and approve without further effort.

Of course, these are complex uses, but I also predict a significant influence of AI in clothing developments, with brands working on new adaptive materials.

With the rapid evolution of technology, what are some future trends in SEO, UX, UI, or branding that you believe professionals should prepare for?

Artificial Intelligence, along with a deep knowledge of programming, data analysis, and statistics, is essential. This applies to all of the mentioned disciplines, without exception. I understand some UI designers may say, “I don’t program, so I don’t need to know that.” In my opinion, that designer won’t fully grasp the possibilities, and there will be someone else better prepared to take their place.

I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but reality shows we’re moving quickly toward a hyper-technological era, so we’d better be ready for the challenges that will come.

On the other hand, like in any revolution, there will be a counter-revolution, which I believe will come from behavioral psychology, the arts, and some philosophical developments I cannot yet foresee.

What advice would you give to someone just starting their career in the digital space, especially those interested in SEO, UX, UI, or Branding?

Be technologically prepared; become an expert in the technologies you need to use. But never forget the foundations. Use books—lots of books. The principles of user behavior don’t change, and human psychology as a whole remains constant. What changes are the events. Those who lack the theoretical tools to react to those events will be at a disadvantage.

Also, forget about social media tutorials. They may teach you a trick or two, but they will never teach you a discipline. It has never happened, and due to its structure and purpose, it never will.

Finally, what is the most important piece of advice you’ve received throughout your career that has helped you succeed in these ever-evolving fields?

Well, coincidentally with the previous question, the best pieces of advice I received may seem small, yet they have guided my career:

1. Take note of everything. I have a great memory and am an excellent observer, so I trusted myself on that, until my boss at the time (a Citibank director) called me out for not taking notes. He was right, as I realized throughout my career. A sub-point: If it’s not in writing, it doesn’t exist. This led me to document everything.

2. Learn the theory. Nothing works by magic; everything has an explanation, and it’s probably written somewhere. You either study it and know it forever, or go in circles, thinking each case is “new.”

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise. Is there anything else you’d like to add?

I’d like to thank you for the opportunity to share some of my thoughts, and as always, I’m available to discuss these subjects with others. I’m always eager to learn something new. I hope those reading this have learned at least a little something.